Being Vegan is So Gay?

As a gay person, I understand the pain of oppression. I understand what it’s like to be denied equal treatment and fairness. And I also understand that an injustice to one is an injustice to all – whether it’s with women’s rights, racial discrimination… or the mistreatment of animals.

When Ari Solomon, columnist and animal rights activist, emailed me with an article titled “Being Vegan is So Gay,” I was struck by the intersections in our movements. Ari writes:

I went vegan… because I couldn’t stand knowing that I was paying other people to do to those animals what had been done, on a much smaller scale, to me. How could I say that I believed everyone deserved to be equal and have a chance to be happy when I was eating the remains of lives that had been wrought with misery and mercilessness.

Surely, if anyone can understand the mistreatment of animals in factory farms, it should be other oppressed populations. Like gay people. If you are pushing for equal, just and fair treatment for humans – how can you turn a blind eye to the food we buy and eat?

But unlike Ari, I don’t agree that the answer is necessarily veganism.

I think the consumption of meat, when done responsibly, is a very natural and beautiful thing. When we consume life – be it plant life or animal life – we’re participating in the great cycle of life, death and renewal that keeps this planet functioning.

For me, the answer is about being a conscious eater. Instead of buying factory farm meats, I buy grass-fed meats from Whole Foods or from local, pasture-centered family farms. In fact, Whole Foods even has a 5-Step animal welfare rating so that you can see how the animal was treated. It helps the consumer make wiser, more conscious choices.

But Ari is right: Oppression is oppression. The mistreatment of animals is an injustice, and it’s hypocritical for us to turn away.

What do you think? Do you think gay people – or other oppressed groups – have a special responsibility and duty to stand up for the rights of animals?

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Comments

  1. ANOTHER vegan-related post? Loves it! Although, I was hoping you were going to say you were going vegan!

  2. I’m a proud vegan, though I wouldn’t say my being gay has anything to do with it. I changed my diet after watching “Food, Inc.” and other exposes on the food industry, in particular meat packing. Therefore, in addition to eating vegan, I try to buy organic when possible. Also, my transition was gradual…shifting first to cage-free eggs, and free range meats before eventually cutting all meat and dairy from my diet. Next is switching to a totally vegan lifestyle in avoiding leather, wool, and other animal products. So far no regrets!

  3. You make a good point, but it’s not an informed opinion. The fact of the matter is that most grass fed cattle, unless they are a step 5 on Whole Foods scale are shipped off to the same slaughter houses that slaughter cattle that are grain fed. Grass fed free range Cattle live a mere 18-30 months. “Sometime before they turn 30 months old, though, heifers and steers face a pair of extremely bad days: The morning they are shipped away from the ranch, and the next morning, when they are killed.” They have to endure an entire day, sometimes two in a truck and they are brought to a completely foreign facility. Do you not think that causes trauma for the animal? Do you drink milk? Read about how dairy cows are treated. How about chicken? Chickens/Poultry are the worst treated of all animal. The very vain of there existence is to fed us. Whether they are free range, or cage free. They still are slaughtered in the same cruel inhumane way. There is so much more to it than you mention. So please, if you’re going to comment. Be informed!

    • Unfortunately, what was “grass-fed” wasn’t a piece of meat; it was an animal, and you don’t have to eat animals to live, whether you consider their death and your consumption of them “beautiful” or not. Eat a carrot. :p

      • I love you, whoever you are.

        • yup, me too.. circle of life is bullshit.. grass fed is bullshit.. eating an animal is bullshit..

          • Why evendors eat a carrot then? Vegetables are also living things. Stop the unjust killing of vegetables as well. I mean, if you’re advocating for equal rights, why stop at animals?

          • Why even eat a carrot then? Vegetables are also living things. Stop the unjust killing of vegetables. I mean, if you’re advocating for equal rights, why stop at animals?

  4. Sean Patrick says:

    I’ve been a Vegan for three years and I love every aspect of it. I do it for three reasons: my health, the animals and the well-being of the environment. I do think it is important to treat others how they want to be treated, regardless of species.

  5. This entry so reminded me of where I was about a year ago. We are all works in progress. I was doing what you are doing, cutting way back on my animal consumption and trying to do so by only buying animals that I had been promised had a nice life on a real farm and all that. As I continued to read more and really take that time to look inside I realized I was being what I now call an “excusitarian”. I was making up excuses and justifying the unjustifyable. But that’s just me and I wish you well always daveywavey on your life’s path.
    Namaste.

  6. To each his own, but I don’t link being vegan to being gay. I’m gay and I love meat 🙂

    I also don’t think that being part of an oppressed minority makes you more conscious about other people’s suffering, although it should. I’ve met plenty of gays who were racists (what goes on in their minds I have no idea).

    In fact, gays can be the most judgmental people out there. Just think of the discrimination against Bi’s and transgenders (and we are all suppose to belong to this happy LGBT community).

    But I digress from the topic. Each person needs to decide for themselves how they want to live their life and what they believe is write or wrong. No one can make it for you.

  7. I personally eat meat, i have no problem eating meat. IT TASTES GOOD! I do feel bad about the treatment of animals but on the whole it is not going to stop because it is simply cheaper to do what they do, i do not have the luxury of conscience (i.e. buying free-range).

    I also think that shoving veganism on gays as another oppression that we should empathise with is a load of bull. Women were oppressed, cue feminism, and now they shove it down our throats and shout that i as a gay should support their cause. i support women’s rights, i just don’t care enough to scream it on the street. Being vegan is a personal choice and should definitely not be forced upon every man who happens to like his own kind.

    As an aside. Human’s were meant to eat meat, hence the highly developed brain. Iron found in non-meat foods is 5 times less efficient at being absorbed. Someone who became a vegetarian at age 12, had to start eating meat at age 34 simply because she could not get enough iron any other way.

    • Mitchelle, before you go and make such claims, I urge you to keep your ignorance in check. I am a med student who has had extensive study of the human anatomy. The human body is designed for a herbivore diet. Please read the following article and maybe even do some research beyond what I am sharing. I think you will be very interested to see that your claims are incorrect.
      http://www.healthy-soul.com/herbivores.html

      • Designed to be herbivores?

        As a student of medicine you should be influnced only by facts. How about the fact that we have survived thousands of years after we started eating meat? In fact, we have thrived! The scientific community defines mankind as omnivores, not herbivores with subtext.

        Eating meat is a personal preference. Eating plants still consumes life which is what we were supposed to do whether you are religious (dominion over all the earth and so forth), vegan, carnivore, gay or straight.

        (and I still don’t see where sexual preference relates to dietary preference)

        • Chris Noaro says:

          Our species’ diet before the 20th century was 95% plant-based – study the science you calim to be on the side of. And do you call the entire western population developing signs of heart disease as early as their teen years and 50% dying from it surviving? Heart disease and cancer were rare before the 20th century before meat and dairy began to comprise a much larger proportion of our diet.

          The thriving of our species happened when we were living mostly on plant foods. And we no longer need to rely on any animal foods as our ancestors once did simply as a means of survival in times of scarcity of other food sources.

          The current obesity epidemic due significantly to increased intake of saturated fat from animal sources is hardly what I’d call ‘thriving’. YOU study the science on human physiology being consistent with herbivorous animals, then come back and talk ‘science’.

          • As a species we are doing quite well. When we were 95% reliant on herbs and plants we had a life expectancy around 20 years at most. It seems as we cultivated more crops, cattle and other foods while we increased industry, we brought ourselves up to the 75+ year range. You will not convince me that we will live longer and healhier by reverting to our herbaceous roots (if they exist, we do have rudimentary canine teeth).
            The best argument you have against me is the asian diet comprised of rice, greens, and low amounts of lean fish has led to their spectacular health only infringed upon by high stress levels in extreme cases.

            I’m done though. You can’t discuss this openly without someone being offended by my enjoying a nice steak. This is a great site though. Lots of education. And back to the original post, I can’t correlate being gay with diet….Jim Rutz is a moron.

            My demographic by the way: omnivore, hetero that is not a hater of either vegans or homosexuals. Live your life the way you want and respect those who want to live theirs differently.

          • Oh please! The reason we live much longer now is purely because of medical advancements in the 18th+ century, and has NOTHING to do with meat. Meat isn’t bad in itself, healthwise, but it is one of the most direct causes of millions of peoples’ coronary heart disease, obesity and plenty of other conditions. At the end of the day, humans can survive on the diet of a herbivore, but we can’t survive on the diet of a carnivore. Yes, we are omnivore, but we are most certainly not as reliant on meat and it is most certainly not good for us as you are claiming. Please, do some research.

        • Chris Noaro says:

          Scientific studies of thousands of people in China showed that even a minor increase in intake of animal foods above a completely plant-based diet increased the risk of cancer. Your argument has shifted from ‘science’ to just wanting to be left alone to enjoy a nice steak. I won’t respect you for inflicting misery on other creatures, it’s behaviour that needs to be confronted head on. If we came in contact with a completely different alien species would you support doing to them what we do to other creatures living on our own planet – breeding them to be butchered and eaten? There is still a nice irony in that people who fail to be moved by compassion to stop animal foods are clearly at a higher risk from degenerative diseases caused by saturated fat and animal protein. By the way pre 20th century people died of different diseases and conditions that are now curable. We may now live longer but that is changing as people are dying younger than their parents and due to animal-based diet and processed foods, people in the west go through a much longer period of physical breakdown before finally dying of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, auto immune diseases etc.

    • Hi Mitchell,

      First, asking you to go vegan is not the same as asking you to shout it from the rooftops.

      Second, being vegan is transparently *not* a personal choice. Eating meat directly affects the lives and well-being of sensitive, innocent beings. It also is the single-worst thing any of us can do to exacerbate the effects of global climate change. Obviously, then, choosing to eat meat is the opposite of a “personal choice,” which by definition would primarily affect you and only you.

      • Nathaniel says:

        i just wanna put my two cents in this…i’m not sure how this works because it is my first time on any blog or forum not sure lol…but back to the subject. i am a vegetarian mainly because i know at the moment i cant afford the dietary lifestyle because i live with my parents. anyway, i don’t know much about science but i have been thinking about something. When does a civilization start to progress? or when and how did our ancestors progress like we did? my answer to this went back to something most of us learned in grade school. in history it shows that the Egyptians didn’t progress untill the age or agriculture or when they and we started to cultivate the plants around us.

  8. danseventyseven says:

    I’d like to say yes, there is a special responsibility on the part of the oppressed to stand up for others, but who will enforce it? We have seen several examples recently of minorities perpetuating the cycle of oppression without regard to their own history of victimhood; the reportedly widespread support of African-American Californians for Proposition 8 springs to mind. The treatment of Palestinian civilians by Israel could be considered another. Closer to home, I know fellow gay & lesbian Australians who vote with a total disregard for their human rights and those of their community, basing their decision on more material issues such as promised tax cuts. So, overall I believe there is an understandable expectation that people will side with common causes, but ultimately it comes down to the individual. Whether someone will overcome self-interest and display empathy or altruism depends on their values and temperament. I’ve learned that you can’t take any of it for granted. And that people can be sh!ts.

  9. Mitchelle, before you go and make such claims, I urge you to keep your ignorance in check. I am a med student who has had extensive study of the human anatomy. The human body is designed for a herbivore diet. Please read the following article and maybe even do some research beyond what I am sharing. I think you will be very interested to see that your claims are incorrect.

    http://www.healthy-soul.com/herbivores.html

  10. I’m glad you covered Ari’s great piece. I would point out, however, that eating farmed meat in no way amounts to “participating in the great cycle of life, death and renewal that keeps this planet functioning.”

    In a healthy ecosystem — that is, a balanced web of energy exchange — animal populations in nature are checked and balanced by available food supply. Predatory animals in nature contribute to ecosystemic balance (i.e. the greater good) via their predation. For example, when lions eat gazelles and reduce the gazelle population, there is less food/less reproductive opportunity for the lions. With a consequently reduced lion population, there is greater food/reproductive opportunity for the gazelle population. With a consequently increased gazelle population, there is greater food/more reproductive opportunity for the lions. And so it goes in an immensely expanding and sophisticated web of energy exchanges throughout any mature ecosystem.

    Humans in civilization do not subject their own population to the balances and needs of a healthy ecosystem. Therefore, our eating meat is in no way a contribution to healthy nature.

  11. thanks for this piece. as a gay vegan myself, i see the connections between the two movements (animal rights and gay rights) having a lot of overlaps. it was the impetus for my organization, our hen house, to start our gay animal series. here’s our first episode where the brilliant nathan runkle so eloquently talks about the connections for him: http://www.ourhenhouse.org/2011/03/our-hen-house-launches-the-gay-animal-series-featuring-nathan-runkle/.

  12. “I think the consumption of meat, when done responsibly, is a very natural and beautiful thing. When we consume life – be it plant life or animal life – we’re participating in the great cycle of life, death and renewal that keeps this planet functioning.”

    This statement upsets me, Davey Wavey. There is no way to consume meat responsibly. In consuming meat, you are promoting the unnecessary slaughter of sentient beings, whether grassfed or not, and that is NOT beautiful. There is nothing beautiful about these intelligent, beautiful, sentient beings being slaughtered in such ways that can only be characterized as “inhumane” for our human greed. There is nothing “natural” about it.

    Furthermore, it’s not necessary for one’s health and well-being, and it has a real detrimental impact on our environment. It can, thus, only be characterized as “irresponsible.”

    Eating a hamburger or filet mignon with a smile while talking about the oneness of life and the “great cycle” does NOT justify the action. Try a cruelty-free diet and see how much more in tune you’ll be with the “oneness of life,” the “great cycle,” “all that is,” “God,” the “universal force,” or whatever you want to call it. THEN, you’ll truly be amazed.

  13. We each have responsibility for our own life expression, and as you may have stated in one of youru prior posts, we can’t really change others as effectively as we can change ourselves. So, with that in mind, it comes down to, at least for me, how I feel about my life expression, and how I express this life. When I am attuned to the source of my being, my choices are guided towards choices which ultimately are not only to my personal benifit, but the whole being as well. How I feel is my indicator of how well attuned I am to the source of my being, so if it feels right to me, then I know my choice and step is the best one for me. If it doesn’t feel right for me, then I know I need to find a choice which does feel right to me.

    One thing to consider and remember is this: The spirit which inhabits the body, is not the body. The body passes away, but the spirit endures. It doesn’t matter what the body is, plant, animal or insect or whatever form life takes, those forms will eventually return to from whence they came.

    The spirit is the aspect in being to predominately pay attention. When partaking of any food or drink, recognize the spirit first, honor and appreciate it first, and then partake of the food and drink before you. Find joy in life and life will find joy in you.

    Best regards,
    Jerry

  14. Saying that you understand the connection between one form of oppression (homophobia) and another (speciesism) and then saying that veganism isn’t the solution, that’s really disingenuous.

    It deliberately misses the point.

    The point is this: No matter how “humanely” we exploit others (“grass-fed”, “free-range”, etc.), it’s still exploitation.

    The animals who we exploit, whether they’re on large factory farms or small family farms, are ALL ultimately seen as property and commodities. THINGS to be exploited. PRODUCTS.

    The ONLY way to make the connection between the various forms of oppression is to become vegan: to live your life in such a way where you take equality SERIOUSLY. That’s qualitatively different from merely paying lip service to equality and then make asinine selfish justifications for consuming others by saying that you care about them. That’s bullshit.

    You DO NOT care for someone by enslaving and exploiting them, no matter how nice you think you’re being.

    Cut the crap. Take equality seriously. GO VEGAN.

    • AMEN!!!

    • I love seeing the word vegan on your blog! Great point Ari. I totally agree. I am a proud gay vegan and it’s best thing i have ever done in my life. More vegan posts, please.

  15. Humans do not need meat or any animal products to survive and thrive. (Sorry Mitchell, but iron from plants is optimal for the body. Your body will absorb only what iron it needs from plants, with meat your body takes it all in whether it needs it or not. This can actually lead to iron levels that are too high. I’ve been vegan 15 years and my iron levels have always been perfect.)Back to my point, humans do not need any animal products, therefore the oppression of animals is unjustified and has nothing to do with the circle of life. “Humane slaughter” is nothing but slaughter. Accepting the killing of animals because “they taste good” is like saying its okay to kick a gay guys ass because “its fun”.
    I hope readers will really take Ari’s article into consideration. Don’t point the finger and say that some gays are racist or are judgmental. Just look in yourself, are you supporting oppression?

  16. ShekinahLove says:

    Think about it this way…..without hunting and killing the animal yourself…how do you know for sure how the animal was treated?
    Big corporations like whole foods would love for you to rhink your e getting a cruelty free product…..out increases their sales! But evn small family farms can be cruel to their animals. Sure.theyre generally better conditions than factory farms..but I wouldn’t call them cruelty free…..
    Iscasing an animal humane? Is forced molting hens to producer more eggs humane? What about constantly impregnating cows over and over again and using them, as machines…is THAT humane? Not to mention all the male calves born will be slaughtered for veal. Plus the atrong scientific evidence that humans aren’t designed to east flesh…..our drink milk beyond infancy. True unconditional Love of to have Lovr for ALL creatures….and not taking theirs lives if its unnecessary. And its not…… As humans we can make conscious choices with our hearts and minds. The circled of life works just as well for humans, as vegetarians and vegans!

  17. I agree that man was meant to eat meat and is completely natural! Man as a species became intelligent by eating meat, and especially fish. Although as humans we have the concious choice to act better, I don’t see any lions or killer whales stop eating meat because it’s cruel! So as long as there are other carnivorous animals out there, I don’t think humans should be the exception!

    • Hi Pavlos, lions ‘and killer whales’ digestive systems can’t handle a plant-based diet. Humans’ can, which immediately dispels your claim that we were “meant” to eat meat.

      Also, it is entirely *unnatural* to eat farmed meat (or hunted meat, for that matter). A comment I left above describes what natural predation entails.

  18. Living life as a vegan has been the most freeing, and most rewarding thing I’ve ever done. I *am* an empathetic and altruistic person, so living my values fully, completely, 100%, provides an absolutely extraordinary feeling of satisfaction and ultimate peace. I may be straight and white, but I am also a woman, so I do empathize with other victims of oppression. For over 15 years, I have been to every march and rally in support of equal rights for LGBTQ folks. In solidarity, my partner (of 12 years) and I refuse to be married until all who want to be, can be. I volunteer to install solar panels in low-income neighborhoods where poverty oppresses. As a child I watched in horror as other adults taunted my mother because of her weight. I’m certain that’s where my empathy and compassion were first born. Painful as it was, I’m glad I developed to care about others, rather than to be one of the ones that inflicts harm without any thought for the damage I’m doing. There is so much pain and injustice in this world that I cannot affect, the only way I can survive and stay sane is to actively work to minimize pain, suffering, and injustice wherever I can. Eating compassionately is just one of the things I do, but to me it is the same as the work I’m doing when I go to a No on 8 rally, or when I install solar panels, or when I donate money to help women and girls the world over. It’s all just my effort to right the imbalance of power and justice. (And it feels great!)

  19. I went vegan 5 years ago my pigs on my parents farm ended up in their freezer, I have my own reasons but I must say this to Davey: MEAT CONSUMPTION IS NOT A BEAUTIFUL THING PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH before you make mindless and misleading statements like that

    • @ Divan:

      Wow shouting at Davey because he disagrees with your moral take on food, that’s not nice.

      Read my post, and please let me know where you draw the line, what life is OK to take and what life isn’t? Also please tell me why? Do you eat honey? do you eat yeast? do you eat organic plants that are fertilized with blood?

      Also I was raised in the rural midwest and if you care for your animals, feed them well give them consistent shelter and protect them from being chased and killed by wolves couldn’t it be considered a better life than them trying to find food on their own, freezing to death in an unusually cold winter, or being hunted and attacked by a bob-cat? If you don’t drive them 1,200 miles to be slaughtered in mass but kill them on the farm they were raised in as painless a way as possible isn’t that better than them being ripped apart by a predator?

      • I think if we realized the full extent of what we’re contributing to by eating meat, a lot of people would reconsider their position. The meat industry does a good job of hiding the reality of how animals are treated before and during slaughter. As does the leather industry… if people are made aware that exotic animals are skinned alive before being left to die in agony, they might not be as quick to choose a snakeskin wallet or crocodile skin boots.
        If people were raised on farms, treated well for the duration of their lives and allowed to form bonds, then killed at their prime and their bodies processed for food, leather etc., what would we call that? Exploitation? As science gives us more insight about how animals experience the world, and we realize how much we have in common, surely we should re-evaluate our attitudes and take moral/ethical responsibility for our actions?
        Meat might taste good, but at what cost? Fur may feel good, but does having its comfort justify the cruelty that animal had to endure? Whether you are aware of it or not, buy eating meat you are supporting an industry that contributes to the suffering of animals. If there’s a more ‘humane’ alternative, why not use it?
        Is being vegan “so gay”? I think the mere number of straight vegans out there proves otherwise. Unless you mean that like gays, vegans are constantly getting flack for being different… ?

  20. Thank you for posting Ari’s article and bringing it to the table for discussion in responsible and respectful way! I would like to point out that if you want to be considerate about animal welfare, go vegan. Though grass-fed, organic, free-range animal products can lessen your carbon footprint and expose the consumer to less toxins, it really does very little for animal welfare on the holistic scale. Animals are generally purchased from huge breeders (run by Big Ag), animals still have their beaks/tails/teeth/feet/horns/testicles removed without anesthesia, and yes are generally shipped to a central location for slaughter (run by Big Ag.) Additionally the female animals are all treated little more than baby, egg, or milk machines, because that’s what capitalism- even conscious capitalism- has deemed them to be, organic or not. Additionally- not everyone has the privilege of affording designer meat for the “ethical” omnivore- it’s not a relevant option to most that are struggling to balance their health/food and the economy. Finally- labels really have to be taken with a fist full of salt unless you’ve personally witnessed the farms procedures and facilities first-hand, as labeling comes on the honor system of the corporations or can be bought by the USDA, who has created this system along with Big Ag, there’s little oversight or accountability if it means having to force corporations to follow suite, as time and again it’s been proven. If you want to see small changes in this world, you makes small changes to yourself. If you want to see big changes that create a ripple effect to your community and the US, make big changes for yourself!

  21. When I read Ari Solomon’s piece I was reminded that during the civil rights movement, many Jews were actively in support. Because they knew what it felt like to be persecuted for just being who they are. All humans, gay or straight, would be horrified if confronted with what actually goes on on farms and in slaughterhouses. This short video, already viewed by more than 300,000 people, is a good splice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBbYUdvGWk0. Davey, I commend you for asking the question and for being open. But I respectfully suggest you watch the video for a perspective you may not have considered.

  22. Chris Noaro says:

    I don’t think gay people have a special responsibility to stand up for the rights of animals, but if they’re eating meat and other animal products they’re participating in barbarism just like the straight people who do it. “I think the consumption of meat, when done responsibly, is a very natural and beautiful thing.” – shame on this guy for peddling such callous nonsense.

  23. Hey there:

    I’m not sure where one draws the line. Is it at insects, one celled animals, plants? It seems that as animals ourselves we have an impact on our environment that we cannot avoid. We can however reduce our negative impact, but then again in whom’s judgement is it negative? Our own?

    We can improve animal’s lives by eating animals that were well cared for and more gently killed. If every meat-eater did this factory farms would go out of business.

    We can eat less animals, but that means eating more plants – most agree that it takes less environmental effort for plants than animals.

    To eliminate eating animals for moral reasons has always been confusing to me, mostly because it draws an arbitrary line as to what is moral to eat and what is immoral to eat based on it’s species not on how it was cared for.
    Plants respond to attack, many secrete chemicals when their leaves are being chewed by insects so that they taste badly to the insect and the insect moves on.
    Plants will migrate to better living locations.
    Plants attack and kill other plants for their survival
    Plants will decimate their eco-system if there isn’t an opposing force.
    (Sound Familiar?)

    Just because we don’t know how to communicate with plants doesn’t mean they don’t live worse lives being crammed into a homogeneous field and sprayed with chemicals. I feel to draw a moral line at a specific plant/animal subset is arbitrary and looses moral footing, Where does yeast fall in this spectrum (and who said it was moral to eat yeast but not bee’s honey?)

    Also if you are eating organic vegetables, chances are they are not vegan friendly in spirit. Most organic vegetables (and all large-scale organic vegetables) are fertilized with bone meal and blood. Most of the bone meal and blood comes from the factory farms.

    I think choosing what you eat is a moral question. I choose to eat well cared for animals that are killed in a mostly-stress free way. I also choose to grow veggies so I know what goes into them and what goes into the soil in which they grow. I fertilize with blood and bone from animals that were raised organically and not on a factory farm.

    But also I understand that everyone has their own moral compass and I try to respect that.

  24. Brittany Legere says:

    To be honest, I’m not sure what kind of vegan I am – abolitionist or welfarist, but I do know the companies lie, and they hide things. Have you seen Food Inc? Earthlings? (I have yet to see the second, but I’ve heard it’s interesting)

    This is coming at a funny time, because I actually became vegan about.. 3 days ago.

    I suppose it’s what you think of an animal’s worth.
    Do you think they’re equally as valuable as humans? If so, why don’t we just eat humans too, right?

    To answer your question, I don’t think it’s JUST oppressed groups that should be thinking about what we eat. We aren’t the only ones that eat, right? Though we may be more sympathetic towards animals because we can relate to feeling like less than others, I think the world as a whole should really educate themselves on this topic, because it could do so many good things for this earth if more people were vegan. Did you know a vegan saves 90 lives each year? That corn that was GOING to go to feed say, 20 cows, could feed 240 people in developing countries.

    I understand everyone has their own opinions but in general I really wish more people would want to know the truth about the meat and dairy industries, because the truth is shocking.

    • An interesting point:

      “Did you know a vegan saves 90 lives each year? That corn that was GOING to go to feed say, 20 cows, could feed 240 people in developing countries.”

      But I’m not sure if the 90 lives are cow-lives or people lives (I know it’s not corn life), and in either case maybe we shouldn’t – Please everyone before the hate mails starts – we are an overpopulated planet. We really shouldn’t be doing all we can to save every life. Having said that I want the people I know and loved saved, and yes I’m fully aware of the hypocrisy, I’m distinguishing between what is best for our species and what is best for my happiness.

      But back to your point, one does not have to become a vegan to save cow and people lives. One can just eat less meat and if you buy well cared for meat you’ll be buying less because it is very expensive (as it should be).

  25. I could easily go without poultry or all farm animals (well, at least the meats), but I could never go vegan because I love seafood too much. There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t have at least one serving, even if its just fish. But even greater than my love of seafood is my love for gourmet desserts ergo eggs, milk, and butter; and I’m sorry… vegan desserts just don’t do it for me. I admire vegans for their conviction and discipline and wish more people switched to the lifestyle. It would only improve the ecosystem and might even reduce the population of unattractive, fat people that I share it with. I just want to reap the benefits of the vegan cult growing in popularity and numbers, but I don’t want to join it.

  26. Your conclusion is infuriating! Whole foods is just another big business with it’s own little pack of corporatist lies, and you are a big dumb sucker to fall for it. I’ve read your other posts about vegetarianism and I have one very important thing to say: the obsession with “complete” protein is nothing but meat industry propaganda!
    Go vegan and try to avoid corn syrup and chemicals in your food.

  27. Thank you Davey for broaching this critical intersection of social justice movements. When I chose to be vegan, a world of awareness opened up to me. No longer consuming the pain, death, misery, torture, mutilation of animals (even if only for days or moments), I discovered a totally unanticipated effect: my sense of connection not only to non-human animals but to humans as well blossomed. This was followed closely by an upsurge of awareness and connection to something higher and more unknowable, but very real, in Spirit. Everything you speak to you in your vlogs and posts happened for me with this shift, and I have faith that it will guide you there as well! The animals know our beauty, now can we acknowledge their own?

  28. I’m gay and have been vegan for 20+ fabulous years. It’s one of the best things I’ve ever done for animals and my health. Last year I joined a growing number of vegans who have thru-hiked all 2,175 miles of the Appalachian Trail.

    Gay or straight, I encourage all people to give veganism a try by committing to one vegan day a week. Even if people try to be conscientious meat-eaters who only buy free range and grass-fed, the truth is we as a population are going to need to drastically reduce our meat consumption. There is no way the smaller scale, more conscientious farmers can raise the same quantity of meat that we currently consume.

    So go vegan one day a week. ChooseVeg.com is a good resource to use to help.

  29. Rich, the line is drawn at a central nervous system and pain receptors. (Animals have them, plants and yeast don’t.) Others consider the fact that animals scream and run away from those attempting to murder them. And still others consider the social lives animals lead and their sentience.

    People who are fond of eating animals and the results of their reproductive cycles, are also fond of bringing up a defense of plants. For most vegans this pointless little argument is one we’ve endured many times and it’s not the least bit factual or entertaining. Beyond that though, it’s a silly point for meat-eaters to be making in their defense of eating murdered animals because the fact is MORE plants are killed by meat-eaters than by vegans thanks to the outrageous amount of plant foods that must be fed to animals before they are murdered.

    Also, your effort to undo the vegans by pointing out vegetables are fertilized with animal products is, guess what? Yep it’s another one we’ve heard before! And, what non-vegans don’t get is that we aren’t as hung up as you on animal shit. Veganism is about doing the best you can to abstain from participating in animal cruelty. We can’t control everything in the world. Lots of consumer products have animal ingredients in them. We try to learn as much as we can and seek alternatives for as much as we can, but we’re not about to start eating dead animals because animal poop is on the vegetables! Oh. My. God! Poooooop! Frankly, poop on anything really should be enough to make everyone want to stop eating it. In fact, there are folks doing something called veganic gardening. Interestingly, since you’re concerned, the motivation is less about cruelty and more about the fact that pesticides in animal feed are not broken down in their poo so they are absorbed by the vegetables they are put on—even the organic ones! Anyway, the point is, we vegans choose to do what we can rather than doing nothing because we can’t do everything.

    As for saving lives, it was farm animals she was talking about. And you’re right, we are an over-populated planet and we shouldn’t be bending over backwards to ensure more life on the planet. (I’m guessing this means you protest the stem-cell scientists, the AIDS fundraisers, the breast cancer walks, the pro-life rallies, and all your friends’ baby showers, and insist on DNR’s from all your friends and family.) Fewer people eating animals means less demand for animals to be made. Which, since the environmental aspects of growing animals for food are devastating the planet, would go a long way toward helping the planet as she struggles to survive under the weight of our arrogance. Additionally, as China and India continue to grow their wealth, their citizens are dying to be more like the West. That means their demand for meat at every meal is growing. If nothing else destructive happened to the environment, just meeting the meat-eating needs of the Chinese and Indian populations will do the planet in. vegans are doing more to alleviate the stress on the planet than any other group of people. You can check the UN Study, Livestock’s long shadow to read more about their opinion that going vegan is the SINGLE BEST THING a person can do for the planet. It’s awesome that you and Michael Pollan are able to afford “well cared for” cow carcasses, but know that 99.9% of the animal flesh sold in this country comes fro factory farms.

    • Thank you Chris! Took the words out of my mouth. Veganism came to me after years of ovo-lacto vegetarianism and excusitarianism. It has only made me focus more on ALL forms of exploitation, not just animals or my own health. It has widened my circle of compassion and got me to read and research and become more active on all fronts as veganism intersects with gay rights, human/worker rights, feminism, environmentalism, consumer interests, biodiversity, anti-capitalism, ethics in medicine and research, food justice, etc (google it for yourselves, it’s easy!) It’s a pandora’s box of compassion that may be overwhelmed by and that leads to the preceding excuses/justifications/absurd questions that create mental blocks towards being inclusive and accepting of vegan diets/theories/practices. Ignorance and arrogance, selfishness, and mis-information had led the world on a dangerous path in terms of food and nutrition.

      @Jice- if your only concern is having to suffer the horror of watching the obesity epidemic, then consider yourself lucky and privileged. But I’d also do some real research into the atrocities that happen in the name of seafood (even “sustainable” farmed or wild caught.) We have ravaged, over-fished and polluted the ocean even more than land, there needs to be a complete moratorium on fishing. That seafood you love is no less guilty than any land animal Ag. Oh and they can feel pain too, enough horrible pain receptor studies on fish, prawns, crabs, and other sea creatures have proven just how much more complex and sentient their lives are than we previously knew about. For the flame war: You’d like to “reap the benefits” of a growing sustainable movement without having to actually participate or contribute or even reduce your own greed that stifles our efforts- that’s maybe the more backhanded, fat-phobic, pathetic, cowardly, self-centered comment I’ve ever seen in the 8 years I’ve been vegan, and that’s 8 years of living in the US and abroad with all walks of life. Good luck with that mentality, but I doubt that will get you farther than the mercury-tainted, transcontinentally-shipped, gutted-alive salmon at your local Whole Foods.

      • Geeeeez! Clearly, your heart bleeds for plankton. I am a human being with actual feelings. Where is the love for fellow man? Davey Wavey, I don’t feel love from you with the same fervor as the love Jacqueline has for tadpoles. If I was a gay fish, I would prefer Jackie’s blog over yours.

    • Wow such anger, I’m always amazed at how angry vegans get when we all don’t bow our heads in shame when they point out the shamefulness of our ways. It’s like a mormon telling me I should be ashamed of myself because I’m gay.

      So I guess you’ve answered my question. You determine what can live and what can die for your survival. I don’t know why it is a central nervous system. You say that animals scream and run from someone murdering them. Plants also leave an area when they are being attacked and they do send signals to other plants that something is invading the area. Is it because plants move too slowly? Or is it because the communicate in a language you cannot understand?

      I brought up the point about blood as fertilizer because the bone and blood come from the death of an animal in a factory farm, not because it is similar to poop. I also did not bring it up “as a defense” of my eating but more to point out that as soon as you base on morality, you’ll end up slipping down a slope until it’s no good to eat anything. I have no problem using blood, bone and poop on my veggies. I just do it from the blood, bones and poop of animals that are/were cared for rather than factory produced.

      You also said, “I’m guessing this means you protest the stem-cell scientists, the AIDS fundraisers, the breast cancer walks, the pro-life rallies, and all your friends’ baby showers, and insist on DNR’s from all your friends and family.”
      I mentioned in my note that it was hypocritical of me to want to reduce the world’s population of humans while at the same time keeping those that I care about safe and living as long as possible. There is also a difference between the quality of life and the longevity of it, (incidentally I’d apply that to animals too). What I hope you understand is that I do not think it is a valid argument to say “become vegan and increase the number of people on the planet” which is what was I inferred from the comment about each vegan saves 90 people’s lives.

      I’m not saying you’re morally wrong for being a vegan, I’m not saying that the world shouldn’t eat less meat. I’m saying that once you say it is more moral to be a vegan, you’ve lost the argument, and you’ve lost a lot of people who might consider trying it out. — Take a lesson from Moby.

  30. I never said it was more moral. Non-vegans are the ones that say ridiculous things like “eating plants is equally as immoral as eating animals.” I say eating animals is participating in unnecessary cruelty, torture, exploitation, and death—which it is. I don’t give a crap about morality. I’m not religious, so I’m not worried about impressing some sky-god, or getting into some sky-heaven, or having anyone else care about my choices. I choose to live a life that is as free as possible from unnecessary suffering. That’s it. You brought the morality as a way to undo and disrespect me and my choices. And, fwiw, I do garden and I do it without bone and blood meal or animal poop. So, based on your argument, my morality is still intact.

    And, by the way, you’re also the one who introduced anger. I’m not angry. You asked questions and I answered them. You don’t like the answers so you seek to dismiss me (and them) by labeling me (and them) as angry, but I’m not and neither are they. A discussion that includes differing opinions is not automatically an angry one.

    You made a lot of statements and asked a lot of questions. I responded to your statements and answered your questions but you didn’t pick up on anything I said. Instead, you’re happy to just repeat the same things you already said and disregard the new info that’s appeared in response.

    Oh, and since it wasn’t clear for you, a central nervous system is what determines the presence of pain receptors. Animals have brains, consciousness, and feel (and try to avoid) pain and fear. Plants do not have brains, consciousness, or pain receptors. They do not run from the gardener wielding shears for harvest. Moreover, many plants, and all fruits can be harvested without killing the plant. In fact, many vegetables thrive only when they are being harvested.

  31. If anyone is legitimately interested in these issues, here’s an article worth checking out:
    “Sentience, Consciousness, and Suffering”
    http://www.veganoutreach.org/insectcog.html

  32. http://www.meatvideo.com/
    Excellent point Ari. Thank you for helping us make the connection. “No one is free when others are oppressed.” Bravo.

  33. As a gay person,I can confidently say that I in now way relate to the oppression of the cow.

  34. christopher says:

    whats so gay about being vegan?the only person i know that is vegan personally is a str8 woman living in Colorado with a Japanese-American man-recently retired.as far as going to Whole Foods-lots of issues with this Texas-based company.The CEO-actively contributed to anti-gay initiatives in California-including Prop 8.actively contributed against Healthcare Reform-and their prices for fruit and vegetables are outrageous.In season asparagus-$2.49 per pound at other stores-$3.99 per pound at WF.—–You decide.

  35. @ Chris thank you for your efforts speaking to the brick wall that is “Rich”. I couldn’t have responded better to someone so full of bull

  36. ShekinahLove says:

    Wonder if Davey is going to respond to these comments or just blow them off….

  37. I’m gay and a vegan. My work for animals comes from my work for humans (also animals). Ari’s piece is wonderful and really says what needs to be said … when we pay others to do things on our behalf, we are responsible for those actions. I simply cannot, in good conscience, pay others to artificially inseminate, intensively confine, mutilate without painkillers and then violently slaughter animals on my behalf. And virtually every animal used for eggs or dairy is violently killed. Learn more at http://www.MeatVideo.com.

  38. There is no way to consume meat without mistreating animals!

  39. I wonder that also ShekinahLove. Davey, has any of this discussion given you pause to rethink your position on eating animals? As I said before, we are all works in progress and I love you for giving this issue thought. I was in the same place a while back, thinking that as long as I was buying the animals at Whole Foods then maybe that wasn’t so bad. And maybe that’s right. Maybe it’s not AS bad but then I decided, why not be BETTER instead of not as bad and the transition to vegetarian and eventually vegan just happened.
    For me, I’m just happy now that I’m making better choices for my health, for the planet’s well being, and for the animals I’m not consuming.
    As Kathy Freston suggests, maybe “lean into” veganism and see how you feel for yourself.
    But I don’t want to get all evegangelical on you.
    namaste

    • I agree with you Kevin I took baby steps towards the ultimate, I felt that taking half-measures wasn’t the ultimate in my goal of building a lifestyle on a cruelty free foundation where I take what fuels me seriously, being aware of inherent double standards and habitual convenience and how it will always be a work in progress. But it starts with little steps that lead to big leaps. I hope Davey reads your message and considers going all out. How do you feel about lab-grown meat? I don’t have a taste for flesh anymore so I won’t go back to eating it if they grow steaks in labs, but I’m undecided about how I feel about it, is it a good thing like faux-fur?

      • I’ll have to learn more about “lab-grown” meat. I’ve never heard of it before. Like you, I’ve lost my taste for meat so I don’t think I’d be interested.

  40. Hi.
    I recently turned to veganism for the same reasons most vegans do it: getting sick of animal farming and abuse.
    I must say I’ve never felt better before (I’m 39 and fit), and 8 don’t think I can ever go back to having meat or any animal products again.
    In order to understand veganism and animal compassion, people who believe free range eggs and grass fed animals are “the” solution, should think at the end the animal always die to satisfy a meat eater crave (a burger, some nuggets), and a newborn calf will be taken away from his mother so people can have their milk, an ice cream on summer time, a cheesy slice of pizza and so on… And chickens will be given hormones anyway, to make them grow monstrously in a matter of weeks. Nevertheless the “sustainable” farmers allow those birds to step into the sunlight a few days in their short lives.
    Anyway. I should( and do) respect anyone else’s food choices. As a gay man I understand what it is to be different and some times taken as a freak in a show and I’ve learned to accept not everyone should think the way I do. I think the beauty of live consists in diversity. The only thing we need is to educate ourselves, do our own research about the food we’re consuming and not to blind eyed accept what politicians and corporations try to convince us about…
    Thanks for your site, Davey! You’re hot and very nice.

    Please, forgive any typo. I wrote this on my iPad 😉

  41. I wouldn’t want to ever go vegan… Meat is meat and it’s something I indulge in… So, sorry… But I’m remaining in this food chain regardless as an omnivore!

  42. Look at the intention behind everybody’s comments to see who respects themself enough to respect other life forms and those who protect them, these are people I consider on the front lines of human evolution. Ignorance is not bliss you can’t sugar coat the trail you leave behind, you can’t lie to the all seeing eye

  43. Michael says:

    Thank you Davey and to all the people posting. It is always a “hot topic” when Veganism is brought up. I am a 45 year old man, Retired Military, Gay and Vegan (for 13+ months). I completely appreciate the previous posters who included links to the truth about the human body, vegan diets, etc. I went Vegan from being a former flesh eater in March of 2010. In a 1 week period I read “The Kind Life” by Alicia Silverstone and watched both “Food Inc” and “Earthlings”. What a week!!! I immediately gave everything from my kitchen that was from an animal source to friends and restocked it with foods purely from plant sources. I went Vegan for multiple reasons, mostly for my health, the way I was moved for my fellow earthlings mistreatment and the impact on the world as a whole. I completely agreed with something A.S. talked about in her book that if I wasn’t able to kill and eat my dog then I shouldn’t eat any animal at all. Just because we don’t share our homes with all animals doesn’t mean they don’t ALL have the same desire to live and enjoy their life. I haven’t missed eating meat a bit, which if you knew me and my former love of a good steak, all seafood and bacon you’d be floored by that statement. Cheese is the only thing I have craved, and I have slipped a few times for it. The positive side of doing without dairy is that my body doesn’t react well when I have cheated. I appreciate that the few times I have cheated I absolutely paid for it! Daiya makes a fabulous alternative to real cheese which I usually have on hand these days. Don’t believe the hype and lies of the meat and dairy industries…you get much more nutrition from a plant based diet than animal based, without any of the terrible side effects and cruelty. I will never go back to being a flesh eater and have never been happier with my diet. I have lost weight without an increase in exercise and my vitals are AMAZING for my age and the fact that I am still over my ideal weight. In fact my vitals, cholesterol, etc are better now than when I was 25 years younger and on active duty! I don’t push the lifestyle on anyone and respect everyone’s decision to eat whatever they like. For me personally, the only meat I will “consume” is…well I am a gay man, you finish the sentence 😛 Have a wonderful day!!!

  44. In my opinion, I don’t think gay people have anymore of a responsibility to be vegan or defend animal rights than straight people do. I mean we do understand oppression through first hand experience, however, can’t we just get a break on this one? lol I mean we have to deal with enough and now I shouldn’t eat meat? ooohhhh mann.
    I completely agree with Davey on this one. Its a part of natural life cycles. That doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore animal cruelty, I just refuse to feel guilty about eating meat. I actually work at a store that sells organic meat and produce from local farmers. All the animals live stress free lives, eat vegetarian diets, no pesticides or antibiotics are used, etc. That is definately the way to go. However, organic products are very expensive and as a university student working as a meat clerk part-time…money is a constant stress for me. I compromise by purchasing the less expensive cuts and supplementing my diet with other natural non-meat foods high in protein.
    Although this works well for me, I could see this being really hard on people who, for example, provide food for their entire family. Organic meat is expensive and I understand the pressures of just picking up pre-packaged meat products from your nearest grocery chain branch. For that reason, I don’t think people should feel guilty for doing that because you gotta do what you gotta do and times are tough. Ya know, its hard out there for a pimp.
    I think the people who should feel guilty are the corporations who run and allow unethical factory farming. We should bring more attention to these problems because thats where the true problems lie with regard to this issue. If more rules and guidelines were enforced on farmers to treat their animals properly and allow them to live stress free lives, we wouldn’t have to feel guilty about eating meat thats not necessarily local or organic.

  45. Chris Noaro says:

    ‘Treat their animals properly’ by eventually sending them to slaughter to have their throats cut you mean? Why do you think the ‘more rules and guidelines’ you want to see are not already in place? It’s because the industry puts pressure on governments to relax welfare standards so profitability can be maintained.

    • Oh man. The point I was making is that slaughtering animals is inevitable and I’m not going to stop eating meat because I think its natural and thats the food chain.
      I do, however, believe that they should be allowed to be cows and allowed to be pigs, etc. and have quality of life as much as possible before the slaughter. No matter how much vegans try to make people feel bad for eating meat *cough* its not going to stop.
      Given this, I am choosing to live my life in a way where I make sure the meat I purchase was obtained in the most humane way possible. That’s just how I choose to live my life, just like people choose to live as vegans.
      Join peta and help them out if you got a problem.

  46. Chris Noaro says:

    It’s not inevitable because myself and loads of people have decided to change. Lazy thinking. It’s not very natural either as before the 20th century the overwhelming majority lived on a predominantly plant-based diet. Still today the majority of the world are broadly vegan and they don’t show signs of developing heart disease at any age. Even if taking the babies away from the cows so we can take their milk was ‘humane’, and animals from most organic operations still end up at the same slaughterhouses, others are not so lucky as to be able to afford it. It’s not possible to mass produce meat and dairy without the appalling conditions that presently exist

  47. Cool, but I grew up in a time and a family where we eat meat and the vegan lifestyle, although very healthy, is impractical for me. I’m a university student with a full course load, a part-time job, and a social life.
    I have never had any problem with vegans until they start trying to preach their biased info and try and make everyone else feel bad for not being as awesome as they are. There’s nothing you can say that is going to change my opinion on the matter because regardless of what you think, I’m very well educated on the slaughter process and have even visited local farms while doing research.
    The appalling conditions aren’t near as appalling as you seem to think. We’ve come a long way with the help of revolutionaries like Temple Grandin.
    I think it is the food chain and a natural way of life- its how I choose to live my life. Just like how I choose to live my life as a gay man. So before you start accusing people of “lazy thinking” on a public forum, understand that you don’t know them. My choice to not be a vegan does not define me and since it is a choice that I have informed myself about, you should keep it to yourself and stop acting like you’re doing the world a great justice. All I was doing was posting my opinion because that is encouraged. So how about you live your life as a vegan, cause it seems to be working for you, and I live my life the way I want to live it. If you want to change the world, go out there and do it. Stop trying to pick fights with people over the internet that you don’t know or understand just because they don’t value the same opinions as you.

  48. christopher says:

    ive lost considerable weight in past year-less meat-or no meat is a good thing.—-im going this weekend to veggiefest.org–in Naperville-Illinois—to learn more.this cant be a bad thing.going veg-or even non-meat mainstream-is the hipster thing to do.more and more of us-Americans-are pursuing this route.enuf of fast food-its so last century.forget Burger King-Mc Ds-KFC-Taco Bell-etc etc.-again-so so last century.try a plate of spinach or asparagus-drizzled in olive oil.thats dinner.just an idea.

  49. christopher says:

    oh and going veg really isnt so gay-its now mainstream.

  50. Has anyone ever considered that if we didn’t eat meat, most of these animals would have been born? There aren’t many wild chickens and cows in america, so the food industry is creating life, even if it is meant for eventual slaughter. And animals are not like humans, and we don’t eat the ones that are. You could have a pet for many years and its death will make you very sad, but that has very little comparison to that of a close (human) friend or a family member. I think we should stop whining about the animals that we give life to and start doing some really good things; end discrimination, feed the hungry, spread the love and the like.

  51. Chris Noaro says:

    Yes I have considered it, and it is not a very good advertisment for meat eating that you think that is a good argument. So life in itself, even a life that is tortured from birth until prematute death is something to be cherished? Would you be grateful for being born if you were kept in a room your whole short life never to see the outside world? As far as feeding the hungry is concerned, one of the main reasons there is starvation is that most of the grain grown in the third world is fed to animals in the west so people like you ca eat them. If you want to help the starving, stop eating animals and their secretions. Animals such as cows, pigs and chickens have highly complex and emotional lives with a strong emotional bond to their families and others, your ignorance of that says more about you than the animals. Your only value of animals seems to be what they mean to you…/ pets are worthy because you make them your pet, cows aren’t your pets so they don’t have any value… to you. There’s some much wrong with your ignorant comment, it was hard to know where to start, but I had a go.

  52. the problem being that 99% of the animal food industry is from factory farming. also, the way animals are killed is horrible and the animals suffer their whole lives through ‘farming’ and such, i have seen it.

    believe it or not though, the dairy industry is the worst; there is really no such thing as humane dairy farming, at least in america

    i am obviously also vegan

  53. I am an egg and dairy “vegetarian”. I think is balanced, living in Europe, eggs and dairy farms are still mostly traditional and the animals are treated like pets (my parents have a production of their own, had cattle for milk, still have chickens for eggs and bees for honeys). Dont forget tho that these animals are now domesticated for thousands of years. No way they will survive if we stop “exploiting” them. We created a symbiosis here. It is just a thought. As for you Americans why dont you try to restart some more traditional explorations.

  54. Good article. I’m vegan and gay so I guess I’m doubly oppressed. Disagree with Davey that eating corpse is part of the great circle of life. It is for pure carnivores because it’s what they do and they don’t have any choice. We do. We can choose to be caring and compassionate and live a cruelty-free life. Taking the life of another living creature that has just as much right to exist as we do, merely because we like the taste of it’s flesh, not because you NEED to eat it, is an option in favour of exploitation and the environmental degradation growing meat causes, no matter how compassionately that meat has been reared.

  55. I think the most important fact the people are unaware of is that there is no link between saturated fat and heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. Meat is actually beneficial to our health and so is cholesterol. Being a vegan is a personal choice, personally I am semi Paleo, and I think no one should get dogmatic about diet.
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/09/22/7-Reasons-to-Eat-More-Saturated-Fat.aspx
    The fact that saturated fat is bad for us is only a hypothesis that has never been proven and more and more modern research is saying that animal products are important for our health.

  56. Chris Noaro says:

    It’s better I don’t comment too long on that so other visitors can see the comment and have a good laugh. Why is it the people the hospitals and graves are full of are those who eat exactly that kind of food, even those who exercise die young from that diet.

  57. Jack Baker says:

    I am a Gay individual and also agree with what you have said although I have gone Vegan from being a Vegetarian.
    I have been laughed at in life for being Gay, Emo, Veggie and Vegan and you know what? I just ignore them they are not worth the hassel. I think like you said people should be more contious of what they eat. The debate is weather we are Herbivore or Omnivore and even if we are an Omnivore Mammal that doesnt mean we have to eat fatty meats every meal. It is killing our organs. More grass fed meats with a semi vegetarian diet or a healthy Vegan Diet making use of Quinoua and other milk and protein alternatives. People need to make a commitment to being a Vegan or a Compassionate Meat Eater and stop feeding these food companys that have no concern for how they treat or should I say mistreat their animals and livestock.

  58. I toujours étude pièce de l’écriture dans des journaux , mais
    maintenant que je suis un utilisateur de Internet so donc à
    partir de maintenant je me sers net pour articles ou commentaires , grâce
    à Internet .